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<h1><a href="https://archiveofourown.org/works/24324007">Hubris &amp; Humiliation Gags in Thor: Ragnarok [Meta]</a> by <a class='authorlink' href='https://archiveofourown.org/users/osteophage/pseuds/osteophage'>osteophage</a></h1>

<table class="full">

<tr><td><b>Category:</b></td><td>Marvel Cinematic Universe, Thor (Movies)</td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Genre:</b></td><td>Criticism, Gen, Hubris, Humiliation, Humor, Meta, Nonfiction</td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Language:</b></td><td>English</td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Status:</b></td><td>Completed</td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Published:</b></td><td>2020-05-22</td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Updated:</b></td><td>2020-05-22</td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Packaged:</b></td><td>2021-05-18 06:01:40</td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Rating:</b></td><td>General Audiences</td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Warnings:</b></td><td>No Archive Warnings Apply</td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Chapters:</b></td><td>1</td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Words:</b></td><td>2,223</td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Publisher:</b></td><td>archiveofourown.org</td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Story URL:</b></td><td>https://archiveofourown.org/works/24324007</td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Author URL:</b></td><td>https://archiveofourown.org/users/osteophage/pseuds/osteophage</td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Summary:</b></td><td><div class="userstuff">
              <p>Metacommentary on the comedy of deflation and its narrative role in Thor's character arc, using Tony's arc in The Avengers as a basis of comparison.</p>
            </div></td></tr>

<tr><td><b>Kudos:</b></td><td>7</td></tr>

</table>

<a name="section0001"><h2>Hubris &amp; Humiliation Gags in Thor: Ragnarok [Meta]</h2></a>
<div class="story"><div class="fff_chapter_notes fff_head_notes"><b>Author's Note:</b><blockquote class="userstuff">
      <p>Originally posted to <a href="https://www.pillowfort.social/posts/1252930">Pillowfort</a>.</p>
    </blockquote></div><div class="userstuff module">
    
    <p> </p><p></p><div class="ng-binding">
  <p>Several months ago, I encountered <a href="https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/31-10-2017/thor-and-his-magic-patu-notes-on-a-very-maori-marvel-movie/">this article by Dan Taipua</a> about the humor in <em>Thor: Ragnarok</em> (2017) as compared with the rest of the MCU. I found the argument compelling, but I also noticed that the article is very short and its examples very brief and condensed. So, here, I'm aiming to supplement the same idea with a more extensive analysis of how the movie undermines hubris through humor, using <em>The Avengers</em> (2012) as a basis for comparison.</p>
  <p> </p>
  <h3>That's What Heroes... Don't</h3>
  <p>In <em>Ragnarok</em>, <strong>Thor's character arc is shaped by comedic consequences to proud behavior</strong> -- what Taipua calls the "comedy of deflation." The movie is filled with repeat gags which involve an immediate cause-and-effect relationship between pride and humiliation. Not every prideful act is handled this way, and this isn't the only type of joke in the movie, but it does form an identifiable pattern: Thor starts out a proud and confident character, then gets repeatedly humiliated and overpowered until that pride erodes and he's forced to come to terms with his own limitations. Only once he accepts those limitations is he able to rebuild his confidence anew -- a more tempered, humble confidence, as opposed to his former hubris. This, in turn, is what allows him to find the solution to an otherwise insurmountable challenge.</p>
  <p>The first scene of Ragnarok establishes Thor as a proud and confident character who places full faith in his main problem solving strategy: smash it with a hammer. He's smug, cocky, and undaunted by Surtur's threats; he beats off a bunch of monsters like swatting flies, and he walks away from the fight basically unscathed. His boundless confidence here clearly comes from the conviction that his hammer can defeat absolutely any enemy that life throws at him.</p>
  <p>That all changes after Hela arrives on the scene and destroys the hammer. This is the turning point where everything about Thor's previous approach to problem-solving ceases to be effective. He no longer has his hammer to fight with, and<strong> his entire attitude of prideful, boastful behavior is increasingly undermined by a pattern of humiliation gags</strong>. Here are four examples of what I mean by this type of humor:</p>
  <p>1.</p>
  <p></p>
  <blockquote>
    <p><strong>Grandmaster: </strong>Who are you?</p>
    <p><strong>Thor:</strong> I am the god of THUNDERRR! [raises hands, attempting to summon his powers]</p>
    <p><strong>Grandmaster: </strong>[amused] ...Wow. I didn't hear any thunder, but out of your fingers, was that like... sparkles?</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>2.</p>
  <p></p>
  <blockquote>
    <p><strong>Thor:</strong> By Odin's beard, you shall not cut my hair, lest you feel the wrath of the MIGHTY THOR.</p>
    <p><strong>Stan Lee:</strong> [activates the cutting device, which opens with a whirr of spinning blades]</p>
    <p><strong>Thor:</strong> [changing tone] Please kind sir, do not cut my hair.</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>3.</p>
  <p></p>
  <blockquote>
    <p><strong>Thor:</strong> <a href="https://youtu.be/-N-kHJSj0vk?t=164">But me</a>, [catches ball] I choose to run toward my problems, not away from them. [throws ball] Because that's what h-- [ball bounces back and hits him in the head]</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>4. Thor <a href="https://youtu.be/kmFeemdXhsU?t=27">tries to use voice activation</a> in the crashed Quinjet. Repeated attempts are unsuccessful, and his last guess involves calling himself the "strongest Avenger," which also doesn't work. Later in the same scene, he finds out that the jet's computer actually recognizes Bruce Banner as the strongest Avenger, prompting Thor's offended reaction of "uh, what?"</p>
  <p>In every one of these gags -- the failed attempt to summon his powers, the failed attempt at being intimidating, accidentally hitting himself with the ball, claiming a title that others don't recognize -- <strong>Thor is made a fool of as a direct result of his own posturing and boastfulness.</strong></p>
  <p>These experiences build up precedent for the next turning point: accepting that he's no match for Hela. Leading up to this point, we've seen Thor repeatedly challenged on his faith in his own strength/power. This establishes thematic continuity, then, when he attempts to fight Hela and finds out that he's not strong enough to simply overpower her by brute force. He<em> cannot</em> defeat her in open combat the same way that he fought off the generic monsters from the first scene.</p>
  <p>That realization is what allows for <a href="https://youtu.be/KQvhX-3CkJM?t=34">this vision/conversation with Odin</a> to ensue while Thor is struggling with his sister:</p>
  <p></p>
  <blockquote>
    <p><strong>Thor:</strong> [kneeling] She's too strong. Without my hammer, I can't...</p>
    <p><strong>Odin: </strong>Are you Thor, the god of hammers? hm? That hammer was to help you control your power, to focus it. It was never your source of strength.</p>
    <p><strong>Thor: </strong>It's too late, she's already taken Asgard.</p>
    <p><strong>Odin: </strong>Asgard is not a place. Never was. This could be Asgard. Asgard is where our people stand. Even now, right now, those people need your help.</p>
    <p><strong>Thor:</strong> I'm not as strong as you.</p>
    <p><strong>Odin: </strong>No. You're stronger. [music rises as the camera recedes]</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>It's this moment, where Thor speaks humbly and Odin contradicts him -- complimenting him, <em>giving</em> him confidence -- that allows for another shift in perspective and literally empowers Thor to escape Hela's grasp. Immediately following his conversation, the music swells, thunder rolls, and Thor brings down "the biggest lightning blast in the history of lightning blasts." This is the most effective use of his powers in the entire movie – the polar opposite of his conversation with the Grandmaster, where he tried to boast of his powers and only managed a little flicker of electricity. Thematically, what this means for Thor's character arc is that he has to reach a low point and accept his limitations before he can truly reconnect with his powers.</p>
  <p>Even then, humor continues to play an important role, in that <strong>this newfound perspective and humility allows him to be rewarded with a more effective one-liner.</strong> For comparison, take another look at the first scene of the movie. Here, when Surtur presents himself as an insurmountable challenge, Thor treats him dismissively and tries to sound cool.</p>
  <p></p>
  <blockquote>
    <p><strong>Thor:</strong> <a href="https://youtu.be/EkzRK182UP0?t=138">To be honest</a>, seeing you grow really big and set fire to a planet would be quite the spectacle. But it looks like I'm going to have to choose Option B, where I bust out of these chains, knock that tiara off your head, and stash it away in Odin's vault.</p>
    <p><strong>Surtur:</strong> You cannot stop Ragnarok. Why fight it?</p>
    <p><strong>Thor: </strong>[summons his hammer, smiling] Because that's what heroes do.</p>
    <p><strong>Surtur: </strong>...</p>
    <p><strong>Thor: </strong>...Wait, I'm sorry, I didn't time that right. [waits for hammer to reach him] ...Aaaand, now!</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>Compare that to this exchange at the end of the movie, when Hela also presents herself as an insurmountable challenge, and this time, Thor actually concedes the point:</p>
  <p></p>
  <blockquote>
    <p><strong>Thor:</strong> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJfYh-JVbJA">Hela! Enough!</a> You want Asgard, it's yours.</p>
    <p><strong>Hela: </strong>Whatever game you're playing, it won't work. You can't defeat me.</p>
    <p><strong>Thor: </strong>No, I know... But he can. [spoken just as Surtur begins his assault]  </p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>In the end, Thor delivers a more well-timed one-liner <em>because</em> he's accepted that he can't defeat the enemy by his usual means. No more smarmy, self-congratulatory "that's what heroes do." Multiple previous moments in the movie have have built up to this, teaching negative consequences to hubris, again and again. Now that Thor has learned humility, that lesson allows him to find a more effective solution to the problem and also more effectively time his delivery, even though the victory still requires a steep sacrifice.</p>
  <p>In these ways, the humor in this movie largely aligns with its thematic implications.Thor starts out as a prideful, cocky guy who thinks he can solve every problem and defeat every enemy with his hammer. His pridefulness then makes him the butt of joke after joke until, eventually, that pride erodes and he's forced to come to terms with his own limitations. By changing his outlook and adapting his approach to problem-solving, he's finally able to come to terms with the inevitable and do what it takes to defeat Hela.</p>
  <p> </p>
  <h3>Point of Contrast: Tony Stark in The Avengers</h3>
  <p>Much like Thor, Tony Stark is characterized as prideful and inclined to brag, but <strong>the way that these behaviors are handled in <em>The Avengers</em> (2012) is more flattering and indulgent.</strong> Most opportunities to punish his hubris are either passed over instead rewarded with validation. Another character, Steve, does criticize him for his attitude, but these criticisms are undermined and Steve is discredited. Ultimately the last-minute change of heart that the ending offers is undermined by the movie's unwillingness to make him face any real consequences, both in the resolution itself and across the entire movie as a whole.</p>
  <p>Multiple moments in this movie stand out as gag bait that would have played out very differently for Tony if this had been <em>Ragnarok</em>. Here are four different examples.</p>
  <p>1. Pepper says "Levels are holding steady, I think," and Tony replies, "Of course they are. I was directly involved." They do hold steady, and nothing goes wrong.</p>
  <p>2. After Steve and Loki begin fighting, Tony swoops in blasting music for <a href="https://youtu.be/dZepyr7Bl0M?t=168">a big dramatic entrance</a>. His efforts to make a big deal out of himself are successful. Loki surrenders.</p>
  <p>3. Maria Hill asks "Since when did you become an expert in thermonuclear astrophysics?" and Tony replies, "Last night."</p>
  <p>4. And then, uh. And then there's <a href="https://youtu.be/6lOxW0AB958?t=19">this</a>.</p>
  <p></p>
  <blockquote>
    <p><strong>Steve: </strong>Big man in a suit of armor. Take that off, what are you?</p>
    <p><strong>Tony:</strong> Genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist.</p>
    <p><strong>Natasha: </strong>[looks impressed]</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>...We'll come back to that. Overall, though, the pattern here is that the movie doesn't take these opportunities to undercut Tony's pride. Instead, the narrative allows his bragging to impress people and allows his grandstanding to work.</p>
  <p>Tony's repeat conflicts with Steve also disproportionately favor him, <strong>not only by indulging him with a lack of consequences, but also by discrediting his main critic.</strong> In the following exchange, Steve criticizes Tony for his behavior toward Bruce, but those criticisms don't seem to matter and the focus of the scene shift away to a different topic that reflects badly on Steve.</p>
  <p></p>
  <blockquote>
    <p><strong>Tony: </strong>You know, you should come by Stark Tower sometime. [...] I promise a stress-free environment. No tension, no surprises. [jabs him with an implement]</p>
    <p><strong>Bruce:</strong> Ow!</p>
    <p><strong>Tony:</strong> Nothing?</p>
    <p><strong>Steve:</strong> Hey! Are you nuts?</p>
    <p><strong>Tony: </strong>[to Steve] Jury's out. [to Bruce] You really have got a lid on it haven't you? What's your secret? Mellow jazz, bongo drums, huge bag of weed?</p>
    <p><strong>Steve: </strong>Is everything a joke to you?</p>
    <p><strong>Tony:</strong> Funny things are.</p>
    <p><strong>Steve: </strong>Threatening the safety of everyone on this ship isn't funny. No offense, Doc.</p>
    <p><strong>Bruce: </strong>It's alright. I wouldn't have come aboard if I couldn't handle... pointy things.</p>
    <p><strong>Tony:</strong> You're tiptoeing, big man. You need to strut.</p>
    <p><strong>Steve: </strong>And you need to focus on the problem, Mr. Stark.</p>
    <p><strong>Tony: </strong>You think I'm not?</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>Here Tony's priorities ("You need to strut") are validated instead of undermined or punished. No negative consequences come from him provoking Bruce or acting this way.</p>
  <p>Steve, meanwhile, is discredited in every way. Not only is he wrong about Bruce -- mildly annoying the poor man doesn't result in anyone else getting hurt -- but he's also framed as having the wrong priorities for failing to see what others do. Unlike Steve, Tony is suspcious of Nick Fury, and these suspicions are later validated as correct. Consequently these revelations frame Steve's earier lack of suspicion as naive and overly trusting in authority. In this way, Steve is condemned for initally disagreeing with Tony, while Steve's criticisms of Tony here come to nothing.</p>
  <p>In the end, the resolution of Tony's storyline hinges on discrediting one of <a href="https://youtu.be/6lOxW0AB958?t=27">Steve's accusations about him</a>, transcribed below.</p>
  <p></p>
  <blockquote>
    <p><strong>Steve:</strong> I've seen the footage. The only thing you really fight for is yourself. You're not the guy to make the sacrifice play, to lay down on a wire and let the other guy crawl over you.</p>
    <p><strong>Tony: </strong>I think I would just cut the wire.</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>This charge against him, that he wouldn't "make the sacrifice play," is later contradicted when Tony decides to redirect a nuke into the interdimensional portal -- what Steve calls "a one-way trip." This is set up both as Tony's acceptance of an idea he previously struggled with (that sometimes there isn't any other "way out") and also as a repudiation of Steve's direct assertion that Tony would never sacrifice himself. So this is, ostensibly, meant to demonstrate character growth and selflessness.</p>
  <p>Unfortunately, the strategic necessity of this choice undermines the moral implications. Tony sacrifices himself because he doesn't see any other "way out." It's not a choice between saving others vs. saving himself -- it's a choice between him and the whole city getting nuked or just him. There is no option where putting himself first could really do anything for him, since it's not like there’s really time to just fly away. So although this does directly undermine Steve's accusation ("you're not the guy to make the sacrifice play"), it doesn't actually undermine its basis. Tony doesn't even die from this, either, so the risk doesn't result in any permanent sacrifice. Taken as a whole, the full narrative doesn't repudiate Tony's pride or selfishness so much as it repudiates Steve's lack of faith in Tony.</p>
  <p> </p>
  <h3>Conclusion</h3>
  <p>By comparison to Tony's arc in <em>The Avengers,</em> Thor's arc in <em>Ragnarok</em> differs substantially, and I can see why it stands out as unique among the MCU. While Tony's hubris is more frequently indulged and validated, Thor endures a whole chain of humilation gags which punish him for prideful or boastful behavior. Accepting that Hela is stronger than he is becomes key to finding an actually effective way to stop her – not by proving his detractors wrong, but by accepting that they're right.</p>
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